Attachments (TAU): TUTORIAL Entering Play, primi tecnicismi del gioco

Riporto qui di seguito la spiegazione che è stata data da un "Conquest Rules Arbitrator" (perlomeno penso sia vero)riguardo l'interazione con gli Attachments TAU : Commander Shadowsun,Shadowsun's Stealth Cadre,Gun Drones e Ambush Platform.

Riporto qui sotto il link :
http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php...mbush-platform/

Riporto qui sotto gli elementi principali ed accorpati della risposta:

A common question is how do some of the tricky Tau attachment effects interact. These include:
Firstly, Deploy (where you must pay) and Put Into Play (where you don't pay) are both subsets of "Enter Play". If an ability checks whether something has "entered play", it doesn't matter if it's been deployed or put into play, both satisfy the "entered play" criteria.

Shadowsun allows you to "put into play" an attachment or Cadre (for free). This includes all physical attachments obviously, but also any units that have an effect that allows them to be "put into play" or "enter play" as an attachment. This includes Cadre - which is named in the effect purely to make it obvious that this is legal, but it needn't have been because its effect allows it to enter play as an attachment (ie allowing it to be either "deployed" or "put into play" as an attachment).
Shadowsun cannot however put Gun Drones into play. Gun Drones can only enter play as an attachment by being "deployed" (ie being paid for). Because "deploy" and "put into play" are mutually exclusive, its effect does not allow it to be put into play as an attachment, which is what Shadowsun is trying to do. Cadre on the other hand specifies it can "enter play" as an attachment, which means it can enter play by either method.

Ambush Platform allows you to "deploy" an attachment. Both Gun Drones and Cadre satisfy that criteria (ie both are allowed to be "deployed" as an attachment), so both may enter play via Ambush Platform's effect. When you deploy either, Ambush Platform's interrupt (the cost reduction) will work on both - an attachment being deployed has been initiated, therefore the cards are now attachments, and it's legal to interrupt it and reduce its cost.

If AP's ability had said "target", then it would only work on cards that were physical attachments - because when AP's ability is initiated, it would check that a valid target exists (ie there was a physical attachment in the hand). But it doesn't say target, so no such check needs to be made.
Instead, when their ability is being initiated, it checks that it can (in AP's case) deploy an attachment. Because Cadre/Gun Drones each have a "permission" which allows them to be deployed as attachments, then it's legal for AP's ability to initiate because it's clear that after AP's effect is resolved (in step 6 of the Initiate Ability process), the game state will have changed by an attachment being deployed. So, when you get to step 6, you may choose Cadre/Gun Drones to deploy, because their "permissions" allow it.

A technical aside:

If Shadowsun or Ambush Platform's ability had said "target", then it would only work on cards that were physical attachments - because when their ability is initiated, it would check that a valid target exists (ie there was a physical attachment in the hand), and that target would need to be chosen in step 5, before the effect resolved. But it doesn't say target, so no such check needs to be made.
Instead, when their ability is being initiated, it checks that it can (in AP's case) deploy an attachment. Because Cadre/Gun Drones each have a "permission" which allows them to be deployed as attachments, then it's legal for AP's ability to initiate because it's clear that after AP's effect is resolved (in step 6 of the Initiate Ability process), the game state will have changed by an attachment being deployed. So, when you get to step 6, you may choose Cadre/Gun Drones to deploy, because their "permissions" allow it.

*
Lastly, remember that Cadre and Gun Drone are not attachments when they're in your hand or discard pile. They're still units. They only become attachments at the point the process initiates for them to enter play as such. Therefore for:

Earth Caste Technician: "After this unit enters play, search the top 6 cards of your deck for an attachment or Drone card. ..."

ECT does not find Cadre. It does find Gun Drones however - not because it's an attachment, but because it has the Drone trait

Se ho capito bene,con Ambush Platform ho la possibilità di schierare anche Gun Drones e pagarli anche 1 in meno per l'Interrupt giusto?
Non mi è tanto chiara la parte che ho evidenziato in arancione,se qualcuno riesce a spiegarmela meglio ed in italiano ha la mia gratitudine,anche perchè penso che sia una delle prime volte che si entra nei tecnicismi del gioco.

Beh credo che quasi sicuramente sarà quel "deploy" su AP e sul Gun Drone a fare la differenza, se ci fosse stato un "put in play" sarebbe stato diverso. Nella parte in arancione da quel che ho capito spiega proprio questo, dato che il Gun Drone può essere giocato come attachment, il target per AP è valido, anche se a questo punto mi sorge un'altra domanda: una volta giocato, devo per forza aggregarlo ad un'unità o posso giocarlo anche come unità vera e propria?
Non mi sembra di aver letto nulla del genere sopra, anche perché AP non parla di aggregarlo ad unità valide, ma solo giocarlo dalla tua mano.

Si Ricky, hai questa possibilità in quanto:

Ambush platform ti permette di Schierare (deploy) un Attachment; sia Gun Drones che Cadre soddisfano questo criterio (entrambe possono essere schierate come un Attachment) quindi entrambe possono entrare in gioco grazie all’effetto di Ambush Platform.

Quando li Schieri (deploy) l’Interrupt (la riduzione del costo) può essere attivata per entrambi in quanto il processo di schieramento di un Attachment è stato iniziato, quindi queste carte adesso sono Attachment ed è legale poter giocare l’Interrupt per ridurne il costo.

Se l’abilità di AP dicesse: “bersaglio” (target) questa si attiverebbe solo su carte che sono fisicamente (Type) degli Attachment , in quanto nel momento in cui si attiva va alla ricerca di un bersaglio valido nella mano e nella mano non ci sono Attachment, ma non dicendo “bersaglio” (target) questo check non avviene.

Invece quando l’effetto di Schierare (deploy) è iniziato il check è se puoi schierare un Attachment. Sia Cadre che Gun Drones hanno questa possibilità, essere schierati come attachment, quindi diventa legale per l’abilità di AP l’attivazione in quanto dopo che l’effetto si è risolto (nel passo 6 del processo di Inizio Abilità) lo stato del gioco è cambiato proprio dall’ Attachment che si sta schierando. Quindi quando si arriva al passo 6 si può scegliere Cadre o Gun Drones perché questo è permesso dalla possibilità data all’interno del proprio effetto.

Il riferimento al passo 6 e quello del regolamento che riguarda:

Initiating Abilities/Deploying Cards

When a player wishes to deploy or play a card, or
initiate a triggered ability, he first declares his intent.
The following steps are then observed, in order:

1. Check play restrictions: can the card be deployed
or played, or the ability initiated, at this time?

2. Determine the cost (or costs, if multiple costs are
required) to deploy/play the card or initiate the
ability.

3. Apply any modifiers to the cost(s).

4. Pay the cost(s).

5. Choose target(s), if applicable.

6. The card is deployed/played, or the ability
resolves.

If any of the above steps would make the triggering
condition of an interrupt ability true, that ability may be
initiated when that triggering condition becomes true.

If any of the above steps would make the triggering
condition of a reaction ability true, that ability may be
initiated just after the triggering condition becomes true.


E per rispondere alla domanda di Andrea:

When a player deploys an
attachment card, it must be
attached to (placed slightly
under or adjoining) another
card, game element, or game
area, as specified by the
attachment.

Edited by Horatius - 3/12/2014, 09:14

...e poi siamo sicuri che debba schierarlo per forza come attachment e non come unità? Perché, ripeto, AP non parla di aggregare la carta ad un'unità, ma solo di giocarla.

No Andrea, non puoi se lo giochi come attachment deve essere utilizzato come tale vedi regolamento sopra riportato...

..sempre troppo preciso, io stavo già cercando il modo per fare qualche gabola

Grazie del chiarimento tecnico Gio .Beh..considerando tutto questo direi che Ambush Platform diventa una carta bella tostina